A Clear Eye.

Tom, I share your frustration with the marketing trade.

I'd like to close the cop-out argument that says if you criticise manipulative ads you automatically imply that customers are idiots. Even the smartest of us get hoodwinked and that doesn't excuse hoodwinking.

Second, I am depressed by most if not all forms of image-making by association. Coke sponsors sports to give it the patina of... sporty healthiness. Sounds like the US Army is doing something similar (obviously I've not seen the ads here in London).

Partly I just think it's such a terrible waste of human energy to be so busily dressing things up instead of telling it like it is. (And yes there is a line between dramatising a real argument and distracting the audience by changing the subject.)

Sid puts a different perspective on the US Army message. If the Army wants to recruit on the nobility of serving the country, it would be good for them to say so, as dramatically as they like. But sponsoring football... well it all sounds rather indirect to me.

It's a bit like kids at school hanging out with the beautiful people, in the hope of some kind of reflected glory. I dunno, but if the US Army can't stand up for itself and give it to us straight, it's a bit worrying.

Free speech and free trade have a price. Nothing is entirely free.

But I believe the alternative is worse. Government censors and culture police inhibit innovation and stifle productivity.

People can always stop buying U2 music and refrain from NASCAR events. Freedom to say no is an option in a free society.

A bigger challenge in my mind is to educate children about marketing tricks, and help them seek good stimuli. We need to strengthen our educational and cultural institutions.

I also feel we need to regain control of our public airwaves and stop any tort reform that gives corporations undue power over citizens.

Unfortunately, TV, our dominant cultural institution, is for the most part a vast wasteland and fomentor of ADD. At the same time excellent new products such as Netflix and Tivo are being marketed. Someday the idiot box could become an edification box.

Marketing is manipulation, and it can be evil, particularly when controlled by government. The most evil marketing campaign ever was created by the Nazis. I'm OK with Bono hocking iPODs given that context; a bad business decision, maybe — evil, no way.

A bigger, unexplored territory, is using markeing to enhance the social good.

I'm pleased with most of the products I've been manipulated into buying. The McGann's steel cut oats I ate the morning were delicious, and I bought them because of the cool tin they came in.

Dan Wallace

I do so appreciate the well intended, if misguided passion I read in all this dialogue.

There is apparant knowledge of what is 'right' and the wanting to change what is 'wrong' into something 'right'. It seems it's not just a 'wrong' advertising message. It's the 'immoral' intent, the underhandedness, the deception that offends us and calls on our chivalry to protect others who don't see what I see.

Don't get the idea I'm speaking from on high. I do this myself repeatedly. This, even when I know the judging of what others do is a primary source of chaos, stress and misery in life. I too am concerned about advertising, and public deception in general, in all areas. At times, I am able to glimpse that I am not innocent. I am guilty of deception too! Even though at other times I am truthful and honorable. But, what is most harmful is my self deception. It is then, believing I'm on high moral ground, I can better convince other people with my passion and thereby do more harm.

"Loving What Is" is part of The Work, by Byron Katie (www.thework.org). It's a simple concept to remove stress and misery by allowing yourself to simply see what is. One premise is that by saying Should or Shouldn't we are denying what is real. Then we try to live in the world of the Shoulds. But that is delusion (future). And it sets up conflicts internally which cannot be resolved, only pursued- but at great costs to well-being.

In the end, I am usually guilty of what I judge. Accepting what is is accepting ourselves. Ghandi said: Be the change you seek.

Considering that my 2 year old son knows every corporate logo I think you are right on! It's more than a little disturbing when we go down the highway and I'm hearing "Target", "Walmart", "Home Depot" etc, coming from the back seat. He picks up a letter K from his fridge magnets and announces "I want to go to K mart".

A lawsuit which accuses tobacco firms of misleading smokers into thinking low tar or "light" cigarettes are less harmful has been given the go ahead in the US.

I don't know whether it's ever been attempted, but it seems reasonable to also name those within the media that also colluded to perpetuate this alleged perception that light cigarettes were somehow healthier for you. Advertising agencies involved, in particular, might well have had insights into the veracity of this claim.